When they are more concerned about finding solutions instead of the best price, that's usually a good sign.
But before that can happen you have to do your job and make them feel comfortable enough to freely share that information.
Once you break down that barrier you give yourself a much better chance for success.
Jim Schubert, CEO of Southern States Insurance, talks about how they help clients share problems and find solutions.
Joey Giangola: Mr. Jim Schubert, how're you doing today sir?
Jim Schubert: I'm doing well, man. I am excited to be here and be alive and thriving and all those good things.
Joey Giangola: Oh, fantastic Jim. I'm going to take that enthusiasm and I'm going to accept it, but before we really get too far, maybe before the enthusiasm wears off, I want to know this. What's one thing that is relatively inexpensive to buy but yet you generally forget that you can readily do it and it's easily to purchase, but yet you just kind of hold onto those inexpensive things like they just can't be ever purchased again?
Jim Schubert: Wow. That is deep man. Deep way to start out. I mean, I was going to say a cup of coffee, but these days that's kind of expensive depending on where you go.
Joey Giangola: It's definitely very true.
Jim Schubert: Wow. Wish you had asked me that off camera so I can think of something intelligent to say.
Joey Giangola: It's better to watch you struggle. I got a good one for you when you're ready. So, I'll give you a good once you give me something.
Jim Schubert: Okay. So something inexpensive that is readily available that I don't often buy?
Joey Giangola: You just don't think about it. It's for whatever reason, you just don't think, "Oh, I could just go buy this and it's not that expensive," but yet when you lose one you're like, ah, I've lost this [inaudible] but you can't buy it again.
Jim Schubert: Wow. All right. Relatively inexpensive. I don't know, a set of wired earbuds.
Joey Giangola: See, that's a good one.
Jim Schubert: It'd be super helpful to have when I'm on a walk on the trail behind my office or something.
Joey Giangola: Yeah, that works. Five bucks you get them at CVS or something.
Jim Schubert: Sure. Yeah, yeah.
Joey Giangola: And mine was like USB cords, like charging cords. You could just buy those all the time, but yet you lose one and you're like, oh my God, what am I going to do? We're down to two.
Jim Schubert: Yeah.
Joey Giangola: And yet they're 10 bucks or something. You just have 20 of them, but you never do. You just wait till you buy a new device to get a new cord in the house. Yes, I have a new charging [inaudible].
Jim Schubert: Yeah.
Joey Giangola: I don't know.
Jim Schubert: True, true.
Joey Giangola: That's what I was thinking. There's those weird things that you just never think that you can easily buy.
Jim Schubert: Yeah.
Joey Giangola: But yet for some reason you refuse to allow yourself the luxury.
Jim Schubert: Yeah, sure.
Joey Giangola: Well, the reason I ask and let's move this over to the insurance world, I think that concept generally applies as well, right? There's this idea that I could have all this, there's this insurance that isn't that expensive but yet you could easily buy it, and yet there's a lot of times where people don't. I'm curious if there's one that maybe jumps out. I'm sure there is that over the years of having conversations with people, if there's one that maybe stands out more that you try to talk to them, it's like, hey, this is easy, it doesn't cost that much and you should probably buy it.
Jim Schubert: Yeah. So, and to be completely transparent with you, you don't want me writing your insurance. I still have my license, but I haven't written a policy in probably seven or eight years, but I can speak to our own agents because I am heading up an agency with about 50 people and spread out over several locations. I knew that I wasn't going to be able to continue to write business at the pace that I wanted to, so I kind of had to pick one or the other. But I can definitely tell you, I mean, obviously cyber has become a big one, but I mean, even EPOi, even when it comes to just limits, like going beyond whatever throw in limit is given to folks because we hear all the time. We had a claim from a client, it was about a year ago that somebody was claiming discrimination for, I think it was age discrimination or something like that. Boy did they wish that they had bought more coverage when we offered it to him. Is that the kind of thing you're asking about?
Joey Giangola: Yeah, absolutely. I get limits is a great example too because that's the other thing. You'll have the policy but then you realize, boy, I did not have enough of it.
Jim Schubert: Yeah.
Joey Giangola: Is there something that you guys... Is there a set of kind of guidelines that you guys have put in place in the agency for having those conversations and what you look for in a call and where do you draw the line on some things?
Jim Schubert: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we do have standards in terms of the type of client we're looking for. Number one is that we're looking for clients that want more than just price, we're looking for clients that want at least three policies because we know that those are clients who actually care about protecting what they have versus just trying to fill the minimum requirements. But in terms of limits, I think more on the personal line side we do have specific... We want to see at least 300,000, if not half a million on auto and things like that. But on the commercial side, it's more about just having a conversation, uncovering what specifically that client needs versus, and it may be different than what's on their current deck page if they're with another carrier or another agent, right?
Joey Giangola: Yeah.
Jim Schubert: So we don't want to compare apples to apples because the other agent may have done a terrible job. Why would we want to follow in their footsteps, right?
Joey Giangola: I hate it when people told that to me, and then I also just... Like a pet peeve, don't say apples to apples.
Jim Schubert: Sure. Yeah.
Joey Giangola: Even the word pet peeve. But anyways, I think the thing... What are the conversations then surrounding sort of making those distinctions of finding the clients that are looking for the right coverage? How do you guys sort of sniff that out maybe sooner or later? What's the process there to sort of go through that identification?
Jim Schubert: Yeah. I mean, it's certainly going to depend from agent to agent, but our COO does a really good job of, I love that you say sniffing it out because he can tell within 30 seconds whether this is going to be worth pursuing with the client. And I think it has to do again with their willingness to express what challenges they're having versus leading with price. Them wanting to have a conversation with us versus just, hey, give me the quote. I think it's more nuanced things than just specifics surrounding, particular conversations about coverages or things like that.
Joey Giangola: Yeah. I don't think anybody's ever really, you said challenges right? I don't think anybody's ever said that to me, I've never really necessarily heard that. Although it is something that is probably easily identifiable, right? If they come to you saying, here's our problems versus well this is the coverage. Is there something that pops out? I don't know how involved you are in this sort of process with identifying those challenges, but is there something that kind of going a little bit further, you start to hear some good challenges versus bad challenges and again, back to sort of identifying, sort of qualifying these prospects. Is there something that you found really? Is it better, a good sign versus a bad sign?
Jim Schubert: So, I think it's going to be more instinctive in nature. And what I mean by that is, when you're having a conversation with a client and you can tell that they're opening up to you, first of all, it's your job as the agent or our job as the agent to get a prospective client feeling comfortable enough to open up. Before this call you and I opened up about a few things on a personal level, and it's the same matter, same kind of concept where if you can let your guard down or you can help the prospective client let their guard down to a point where they're freely talking to you versus still having that mentality of, Ooh, there's kind of a wall up and I don't know you that well. I give you a great example of kind of what I mean by this.
I grew up here in Georgia in the south, and I started university at Tennessee in Knoxville. After a year I transferred to Boston College. So a kid from the south going to Boston very quickly learns that there's a difference in the way that people respond and open up in the south generally, right? Making sweeping generalizations here. We are more inclined to want to be more open and talk with each other and open up on things very quickly. Whereas in the north east in general, again, you do have to break down the barrier, and I think what I discovered when I was going to school up there was the faster I could break down the barrier, and I had to be persistent at it to continue to ask leading questions, something that's not yes or no, something that gets people talking. Once you start having a conversation and people start letting their guard down, that's when the real magic happens. That's when you get to the meat of the act to be able to have open candid conversations.
In our agency, we talk about radical transparency a lot, which means if you're not here but I find myself talking about you to someone else, whether it's good or bad, I need to be able to look at that person and say, hey, we're just talking about Joey, who's going to let him know, you or me, right? That's radical transparency, because then it puts pressure on that person. But I digress, getting back to kind of breaking down the barrier to letting the guard down. For me, I think where I've seen the most success in with our agents and their clients or the prospective clients, is when they're able to get back down to a human level as quickly as possible. Because, you know just as well as I do, when you're going into a colder relationship, you've got to be able to warm that up quickly, you've got to be able to get them to a point where they're able to be more candid and transparent. And that's when the real partnership starts to develop. I don't know if that answers your question or not. It's kind of on a more 30,000 foot view, I think.
Joey Giangola: Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And Jim, I think the reason you guys are more open down there and willing to sort of stand out around and talk is because it's warmer.
Jim Schubert: Yeah. Sure.
Joey Giangola: I think you just can stand outside. If you're outside in the cold and it's 30 degrees, you're just not having it. So you're just kind of always in that mode, just in case it gets too cold, I'm not going to want to stand out here and talk to you.
Jim Schubert: Yeah.
Joey Giangola: Well, so talking about radical transparency and more or less kind of getting to the idea of maybe telling somebody, a client, something that they don't want to hear. I think that's part of the challenge. And I've heard some people say that they love doing that. I've heard others, they want to soften that as much as they can, any tips or what has worked for you in sort of being that, I don't want to say aggressive, but having the confidence to deliver something that isn't something somebody wants to hear?
Jim Schubert: Yeah. It all comes down to one word, expectations. I mentioned before our COO, he does a really, really good job of setting expectations with clients and prospective clients. And he'll have people call him from specific niche markets that are a little bit harder, a little bit hairier, and they know that it's going to be tough because they've probably already been told no or higher prices if they've called somebody else. But oftentimes he'll get people that he is the first point of contact from an insurance perspective, and he is the one delivering the really bad news of, hey, this is going to cost you a ton of money. I'm just going to go ahead and tell you that right now, right? He's able to let them know, it's going to costs you a ton of money, here's where you're going to run into challenges. I encourage you, after this phone call with me, to go talk to a couple of other agents.
Here's what they're going to ask you, here's what they're going to tell you. And once you've had those conversations and you think that I'm clairvoyant because I put predicted all that, come back and talk to me and let's have a real discussion then. Because it's all about, in setting those expectations, we do it with our children all the time, right? What time is bedtime? We have to set that expectation, right? If I let them push the envelope, they will. But if we say, no, no, no, it's here. It's going to stay here. They're much less likely to fight against it. It's kind like being in a riptide, right? The best way to get back to shore is just go with it. And if you have that expectation and you know that's how a riptide works, then you can safely get back to shore. But if you didn't know that you'd be struggling mightily.
Joey Giangola: It is amazing how powerful it is to tell somebody what's going to happen before it happens, again, having that sort of, just laying it all out there and the confidence that builds to again, like you say, get them I guess warmed up in the first place, right?
Jim Schubert: Yeah. I mean, have you ever fallen on a plane? What does the pilot do when you first get on the plane?
Joey Giangola: Yeah.
Jim Schubert: They'll come on and they'll tell you what the weather is, where you're going, how long it's going to take to get there. If he thinks there's going to be turbulence, if the flight attendants are going to be able to get up and serve drinks and food, that kind of thing versus if you didn't know any of that and you were just the least bit hesitant to get on a plane, because who's really excited to buy an insurance policy? It's the same concept, right? If you give them the bigger picture and help them understand what it's going to look like. I love Stephen Covey, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, begin with the end in mind, right? I think that's habit number one, right?
If you don't know what it's going to look like down the road, it's going to be really hard for you. I mean, you're going to be stumbling around in the dark a lot if you don't have a clear picture of what that looks like. So it's the same thing with our clients. If we give them the expectation ahead of time and help guide them through the process, I've seen this over and over. They love you for it. They're grateful for the fact that you held their hand in something that was a little bit scary, not necessarily predictable from a pricing standpoint if they're not used to it or not used to good products and even good service.
Joey Giangola: You said something that I thought was interesting of, they're not excited to buy an insurance policy. And I struggle with trying to make it something that it's not. And I guess, how do you straddle the line of [inaudible], cause you have people that say, oh, we're going to make it this and make it fun and whatever. But at the same time there's a real, just unpleasant nature to the whole thing because you're trying to prevent something from happening or protect something that you don't want to happen, right? So, do you guys focus on sort of straddling that line of, yeah, we don't want to make it painful but at the same time it needs to be grounded in some aspect.
Jim Schubert: Yeah. What I've seen works best of anything, not just our own agents but other agents that I've talked to around the country is the power of storytelling. We don't remember events typically without stories. If you're helping explain coverages to them by telling stories about other clients or other things that have happened and giving them reasons to buy that product, I mean, take cyber as an example, right? That's a huge risk right now that everybody is faced with. And I mean, literally everyone, right? And if you can explain it to them by telling them stories of what happened with this client or that client and this client had the coverage and thank God they did and here's what happened. This client didn't have the coverage. They weren't my client, I would've sold them that, right?
But if you can tell them stories, they will remember that and that's what gets burned into their memory to help make it a little bit more palatable and maybe even a little more exciting from the standpoint of they have a better understanding of it. I think the best way that we can think of ourselves as insurance agents is educators. I was a former high school English teacher in Boston, and I loved what I did, but the students weren't actually standing on top of their desk, chanting O captain! My captain! And I just had this delusions of grandeur that didn't pan out for me that way. But I have always loved the education piece of our business because through telling stories, through educating our clients and again, that goes towards breaking down that wall again.
Joey Giangola: And I think you hit on that again, taking that storytelling ability with the knowledge, right, and putting those two together and sort of knowing how to Bob and Weave through that scenario. Is there something, if you had to give your best, this is always something that easily open the door quickly for me, tip to telling a good story, again because you listen to some people tell stories and you're like, where's the exit? How do I get out of here? Because this is not going great. So is there something that if you had to give one sort of subtle tip to improving that ability to one, educate and then tell a meaningful and compelling story, is there something that you feel you've got a secret to?
Jim Schubert: Well, my wife will tell you that anytime I try to tell a story, she's like, can you please get to the point. So perhaps being succinct, being concise, I think it's not a bad idea for agents to have almost like a repertoire of stories, almost like an elevator pitch type thing where you've got for maybe every major coverage, literally just rehearse a story about why they would want that coverage. But something that's real, something that happened, whether it's one of your own clients or you heard it from another agent or maybe you heard a story from somebody that you go to church with and you don't have any affiliation with them from an insurance standpoint, rehearsing it to make it a little bit more concise is maybe one tip I could give.
Joey Giangola: All right Jim. I've got three more questions for you, sir.
Jim Schubert: All right.
Joey Giangola: And the first one is simply what is one thing you hope you never forget?
Jim Schubert: Ooh, I hope I never forget that this business is all about relationship. I hope I never forget that because I see agents who are much more transactional in nature and I see things dry up because that is our superpower, in particular independent insurance agents to have that relationship with clients. I don't know if you wanted me to stick with insurance, but that's one thing I certainly hope I never forget.
Joey Giangola: There are no rules here Jim, you can go anywhere you want. Now, on the other side of that, what's one thing you still have yet to learn?
Jim Schubert: Oh wow. I think on a personal level, how to be the absolute best parent I can be because I think that especially having two teenagers and one that thinks she's a teenager, we are not the most popular people at the moment and I'm fine with that, but I certainly hope that I can learn to be the absolute best parent I can be. In saying that, what I mean is I hope that I can prepare my children to live in the world that we have created for them.
Joey Giangola: All right, Jim. Last question to you, sir. If I were to hand you a magic wand of sorts to reshape, change, alter, speed up, really any area of insurance that you saw fit, what is that thing, where is it going and what is it doing?
Jim Schubert: Wow, good question. I think either on the processing end of things, internally or some way to give agents and all of the people that support them more time to do what we do best. And that's why I guess I come back to processing, the menial tasks, the things that take a lot of time, because as I said before, where we shine our superpower is building relationships with people. And if we have things that are hindering us doing that, can we just have an agency management system that works for us and not against us? And I think we have a pretty good one, but at the same time none of them are perfect. And all of them require a lot of menial, repetitive, transactional type interaction. And I would much rather see us find ways to free ourselves from that beast and be able to be there for our clients and more relational.
Joey Giangola: Jim, this has been fantastic, sir. I'm going to leave it right there.
Jim Schubert: Thank you, sir.