From there it just becomes a matter of finalizing legal formalities.
It might sound overly simple, but it's certainly an area plenty of agencies get wrong.
The bigger question is, what should you do after the ink is dry and your first order of business is needed?
That's a question Jen Curran, owner of Johnson Stevens Curran, answers, detailing her experience taking over the family business.
Joey Giangola: Jen Curran, how you doing today?
Jen Curran: I'm doing great, Joey. Thanks. How are you?
Joey Giangola: Jen, I'm doing all right. I want to know this before we get too serious about things. Is there a maybe simple piece of technology or some simple form of technology that gives you a disproportionate amount of joy that maybe you didn't know you never needed in your life?
Jen Curran: Disproportionate amounts of joy? Say disproportionate amounts of joy and stress would be your phone. It can be good or evil.
Joey Giangola: I think depending on the use case, for sure, and the quantity of. I will go for that. For me, Jen, it's really simple. I don't know if you've walked into the world of video doorbells, but they'll have seasonal chimes, and I never knew I needed those in my life. A Halloween one, a Christmas one, it's my favorite thing. But they're very limited, and they take them away when the season's over. I'm like, "I could use more seasons." I don't know, maybe we just make something up.
Well, so I guess I want to take that over to the insurance side of things. From what I understand, you've grown up around the business, and joy is never typically a term that we associate with the insurance buying process.
It's probably something you've reflected on the majority of your life that you don't really care to admit in terms of how much you've thought about that. Is there something that you think that is present that is hidden in terms of making the process more fun and enjoyable and/or what did you do? This is a big question, but we'll set the stage. What did you do coming into a family agency to put your stamp on changing that tide of old school insurance to where you thought the industry could go?
Jen Curran: I'll take it back a little further than that. As much as I grew up around the agency, it was my dad's, obviously, growing up. I didn't really participate much in it. I think my siblings and I all worked the one obligatory summer in high school, and then that was it. And then after college, I spent five years as a college basketball assistant. So, that wasn't really the plan out of college either. But when I was getting ready to get out of coaching, I knew it wasn't going to be what I wanted to do forever. And I was looking into, was it grad school? What's it going to be? And my dad said, "Well, if you want to come work here until you figure it out, you can do that. That was in 2007. So, here we are. Fast forward, I went to work for him doing ID cards and real basic, basic stuff. And about five years ago, I bought the agency. So, as far as putting my stamp, what was I thinking about 20 years ago? I wasn't thinking about it. So, that evolution has come in the last X number of years.
Joey Giangola: I don't know if I've ever asked this question to anybody, but what is it that you think, because I've heard that over and over again where it's, "Why you're figuring things out" or just, "I never really thought to be here." But what is it do you think that makes people stay? What is just in your obviously instance that kept you here?
Jen Curran: I think it's a good question. A couple different things. I think just simply once you get into it and if you're in it for a year, two years, just long enough to be dangerous. You've already spent so much time gathering all of that new knowledge and all that new information that I think even if you made a switch within the industry is a smoother transition than getting out all the way again and starting all over. I was in a unique position in that I didn't have a production gun to my head. I didn't have, "You have to have this policy count or these sales by this date." When I tell you I came in and I was doing like data entry into the management system, I started at the very, very bottom and worked. There's not a job in the office at this point I've not done, not an office physically that I haven't sat in just musical chairs.
But I think as you, especially in my situation, having had the time to grow into it and learn it, you wake up one day and you're like, "I just spent 10 years learning all this. Why would I go start all over again somewhere else? Obviously the insurance part and the helping people. Really, if you work hard and you work efficiently, there is no bounds to what you can earn. If you're in education you could be the very best teacher in the district. And if you met, that was actually one of the examples, one of the conversations we had circa 2007. You go the education route, you could be the very best teacher in the school or guidance counselor, what have you. And you're going to make exactly as much money as the one that's not so great, but has as many years in as you. Being a former athlete, my dad hit me. He's like, "Are you going to be good with that? You're going to do you, and the one who doesn't do anything..." He played me a little bit, dangling that carrot. I think a combination of those things.
Joey Giangola: So, it sounds a little bit like organized crime a little bit. You're in too deep you just can't get out of it. The family aspect, it's all there. So yes, the whole athlete thing. And I think that's interesting, and you see a lot of former athletes come into the industry and I guess do well. I don't have any sort of actual statistics to back that up, but it seems to be something that happens. Is that something that, again, appealed to you knowing that a lot of people don't make it in the industry? It's something that is hard to succeed at in a way?
Jen Curran: I think I was sheltered from that. I don't think I really recognize that that was going to be the case until I was spun back out on my own. Because I came in-house and was learning. And again, I wasn't the brand new salesperson who never did it before and had to go sell to Mom, Dad and your neighbors before you got fired next Friday. I didn't. So to me, I don't think I realized that until I was in a position to already start be doing okay, and then recognize. But I had that advantage. My dad took the time and every time I had a question, you know how many times I asked him, "Dad, how do I do the subcontractors? How do we rate for that?" The poor guy spent hours just answering all the questions I had over and over and over again. But it allowed me to be better, I think, than just throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what would stick.
Joey Giangola: And I always thought that that was why family agencies had the advantage, because why would you tolerate so much of that, just the process it takes to get somebody to that point if they weren't your own children. It makes it easier to say, if somebody's off the street, you have a little less tolerance. The leash is a little shorter in those cases because you didn't bring them into the world.
Jen Curran: And I think it depends on the position that you're training for too. I've actually trained over time now from the ground up people with zero experience, more to a service though, more to a support staff position than a sales position. That's something on my list I'm going to have to do at some point. But most of the training I've done has been in a service capacity. But I will tell you, one of the things that he always said and I believe in is it's, "I'd rather have the right person and train them than take somebody who's got five years of experience and..." I just think it's okay to take a risk on somebody and teach them they can... I had to be taught. Everybody had to start somewhere.
Joey Giangola: What was the biggest shift that again now having firmly established yourself as taking over the agency? What was day one like, ah, yes. I have keys to the sports car now sort of thing. What was day one like, this is what I'm going to do now?
Jen Curran: That was probably day 366, because I spent the first year just trying not to mess anything up and not create any bumps in the road. We had the same staff. The staff has been with us for a long, long time, and I wouldn't really say very much changed right away. We had been transitioning over time before we signed papers. So, it wasn't all of a sudden we woke up one day and the dynamic shifted. It was a pretty clear path, I think, to everyone what was happening. It just was a matter of the legalities of it. But when we did do that, we didn't even switch offices. My dad kept the big offices for another year or so until he was watching YouTube videos too loud. I had to move him down the hall.
But I would say little by little, and this is going to sound so basic. But we're in the northeast, we're in Connecticut prepping for snowstorm and work from home. We didn't really have a work from home capacity. So, his was probably 3 1/2, 4 years ago, thankfully. But just a little thing as far as going to Office 365 from the CD with the code which is just on your computer. And switching to a VOIP phone system and just trying to put little things in place that if we did need to just be home one day, it wasn't, "Everyone just call in and check the voicemail and hope your emails don't blow up for a day." I was prepping for a snow day, and then we had a pandemic. So, it was a little bit of a fire drill in the sense that we were having to use things that we had in place that hadn't really need to put into real use often, but we had it. I look back now, two years later from the 2019 and just, I'm very thankful that I was preparing for a snow day a couple years ago.
Joey Giangola: I wouldn't downplay. Simple or not, that's a real thing that agencies are still dealing with today as they go through that process. I think the thing that I'm interested in, and if you had to look back to where you were seven or eight years ago getting on that track to take over things. And if somebody was in that position now where they're a little murky or they might not really be sure what the next steps are, any... Because that is a struggle. When's it going to happen? What's it look like? And that creates a lot of tension and then ruins a lot of potential perpetuation plans. What advice would you give to somebody sitting in that seat right now?
Jen Curran: It's really just to communicate. Whether it's with your father, your uncle, your mother, your grandmother, whoever the person is ahead of you. But also I have three siblings, so and I'm the only one in the business. So, just making sure... We didn't really talk too, too much about all that. My dad handled that for the most part, that was his call. But I think having the open lines of communication with the people above you, but also the people around you. Because when that perpetuation changes or when the ownership changes, your staff is still your staff. So, for as much as it's important between me, and my case it was my father and myself, but also the staff around us to be able to know I'm going to be okay because we're not going to sell to somebody we don't know, and I'm going to lose my job or the world's going to change.
I didn't really do anything big, and I wouldn't even say those things were big, but I didn't really rock the boat very much for about a year just to make sure everybody was comfortable. And just little things I would say, even today, I make little changes as we go. I'm not ever going to try to pull the rug out from anybody. Nobody likes change. So, when I do make the changes, we try to just go little steps at a time and tell them why I'm doing what I'm doing. So, there's a little bit of context, not just I woke up today and decided we're going to have this piece of software or whatever. I often ask their opinions. What do you think, where do you think we need help? What do you think? Do you think this would help us? Do you think this is worth it for me to spend X to do this? And I think they value being valued and that their opinions are valued. And I think that's important, especially in a smaller office.
Joey Giangola: So, looking back at those tiny changes that have happened over the course of the years, is there something that stands out to you as being the most impactful that you didn't see coming? Well, I didn't think it was going to really change the agency the way it has to this point.
Jen Curran: I went to a conference, gosh, probably five or so years ago, give or take. And one of the biggest takeaways wasn't a specific thing, but it was that in insurance at the time they were saying your competition's not GEICO or State Farm or whatever. It's Amazon and Disney and the people that are allowing people to do business the way they want to do business and providing what they're looking for, whether it's on the phone or is it on video? Is it in person? Is it sending a check in, is it making a payment online? Allowing people to work with you the way they want to work and trying to, I'm still in the process of doing that. But that was my takeaway in trying to implement things little by little. What are going to help our clients do business with us? Because not everybody's going to want to do business the same way.
So, I would say I'm not going to speak to a specific thing, but whether that's adding an e-pay policy or setting up the DocuSign. Not actual DocuSign, but the E signature software, 101 basic stuff. But things that if you don't have them, you're not going to be able to work with a lot of people. And honestly the people that I want to work with, it's a lot easier for us to work with people who can work with that than it is somebody who's mailed me this and we'll mail it back to you.
Joey Giangola: Going back to your snow day preparations. It's that making sure you have those capabilities when they're needed. At the same time being able to still leverage what has made independent agents, independent agents for years. So, I think it's finding a way to blend those elements and not say, "Well, we're here on Main Street, and we've been here forever. So, we obviously don't need that." But it's just being able to serve people.
Jen Curran: It's how do you appeal to different kinds of, because everybody processes things differently, et cetera. So, just trying to offer different ways to communicate with people and talk to people and be available to people. And don't get me wrong, we are not a 24-7 shop, but making people feel like they're able to get to us in different ways and speak. We have someone, this isn't technology, but it's human. Someone answers our phone. We don't use an auto receptionist. Somebody answers the phone with, it could be me one day if everyone else is on the phone, I'll pick it up even if it's just to say, "Hey, Joey's still on the phone, but he'll call you back." People spend enough time, all day long, press one for so and so, and that's important for us. It may not be important for the next person, but it is for us.
Joey Giangola: Have you noticed during that time, any different reactions from your clients and that appreciation or, "Oh boy, this was great." Has anything stood out to where boy, we might not have gotten that policy or might not have been able to handle that renewal in a way, if we weren't pushing the flexibility of our communications?
Jen Curran: I don't want to keep saying pandemic. But we had one of our best years in 2020. And for several months I had one person in the office. I was in and out, I had somebody else home and I had one at home with her kids that she was homeschooling. And we knew we were home, but I never, I know some offices put out a thing communications to their people, "Hey, we're not in the office anymore, but don't worry. We're here to service you." I decided not to do that. We had about a half a dozen people that would come in to make payments every month. We called them and said, "No more of that."
But other than that, we never really made a thing about it. So, if you called my office, and I think this goes for a lot of places, but if you called you never would've known that I was sitting at my kitchen table or so and so had her kids right next to her doing math or whatever. I think we had the ability to continue business as usual and present that going back outwards. So, I think that just the comfort of that nothing ever changed for anyone. People don't like change. Nothing really changed for our people, for our clients, which I think allowed us to have, we had a really good year.
Joey Giangola: Well, I've heard that from quite a few agents that you wouldn't necessarily expect that to be the case. And I think that's probably a good thing. Because every time, whether it's a snow day or whatever the circumstances are, you shouldn't necessarily need to clarify your surround... "Please describe your room intimately. What's the color of your walls." Is there anything that stands out to you above all that we've covered that if you had to say to somebody that's taking over the agency, don't make changes too fast, be patient, communicate, all that fun stuff. But is there something that if you had to point to why you're here successful this long into the career and managing and transitioning to family business, is there one thing that stands out to you that you would never really shy away from?
Jen Curran: As much as I'm saying, don't make changes too fast, don't be afraid to make changes. Constantly be looking into what's out there. What's available? What could you have? Do you need it? You have to go down that path of what's out there and then think about will this help us bonus. Is it worth it? And then think about, if I'm going to put this in, when? How? So, that also plays into the “you're not doing it too fast.” Because generally I don't make a snap decision on implementing things. Because I do a lot of research about it. I talk to other agencies, I have a couple in the state of Connecticut that we bounce things off of each other and that's invaluable. I would say make some friends. Make some friends that you're not really competing with on the day-to-day because having a soundboard like that...
And I have my dad too. So, I have somebody with 60 years of experience that I can bounce things off of. But as far as the newer technology stuff, sometimes he's not the right avenue for that stuff. But he was very progressive and always told me, "Don't be afraid to spend, and don't be afraid to invest in technology." Always, always said that to me. So, he was not stick-in-the-mud or anything. It's just, things are now changing so much quicker and he's stepping back, so he's a little bit out of touch as to what's out there. But when you can talk to some peers who have a little bit of a better idea, that's so valuable. So, when you go to Continuing Ed, make friends with the people who sit next to you.
Joey Giangola: I have to say real quick, I appreciate the fact that you call him your dad. I've run across a handful of people in the industry that will call their parents by their first names, [inaudible] it just freaks me out. It's just listen, we all get it. It's not a secret. Jen, I've got three more questions for you, and the first one very simply is what's one thing you hope you never forget?
Jen Curran: That's a good one. Hope I never forget where I started. However far you climb, you started. I started, when I tell you the very, very most entry level, and I'll digress for a second. Years ago, one of our CSRs, who has since retired, told me one of the reasons she liked working for my dad was that she knew there was nothing that she did that he couldn't or wouldn't do. That stuck with me. So, hopefully as we grow and hopefully get successful, I shift more to on the business than in the business. Who knows? But I do know that the respect that he was able to gain from his staff by knowing that he wasn't afraid to roll up his sleeves at any point, I would like to continue in that. I want to make sure they know that I'm with them.
Joey Giangola: Now, on the other side of that, what's one thing you still have yet to learn?
Jen Curran: You don't know, what you don't know. What do I have yet to learn? Hopefully this is projecting forward that we get bigger and I start... I've trained a few staff from the ground up, but to train more and to try to grow, not just me myself. I got to grow everyone around me. Because if everyone around me is growing, then we all grow as a team. So, to be in the position to help everyone around me also grow forward.
Joey Giangola: Jen, last question to you. If I were to hand you a magic wand of sorts to reshape, change, alter, speed up, really any part of insurance, what is that thing? Where is it going? And what's it doing?
Jen Curran: Well, my immediate thing, when you were halfway for your question, the magic wand would be to help me hire. We are looking to hire, and that's been a difficult process, as I'm sure you're hearing all over the place. So, we're going down a couple other avenues, whether it's a VA or we're actually working with a local politician who works with veterans. So, we're potentially looking down that route to see if we can make a connection there. So, that's not necessarily what's going to make my insurance life better, but I would say as you know, and I'm sure everyone listening, there's a million systems out there, and it's really hard to wade between the who does what, and people's tech stacks, and you can't ever get everything to work because you got to get a third thing to get the first two things to work. And if at some point we could just have things play a little bit more nicely together, from the carrier side all the way down to our side, that would be awesome.
Joey Giangola: Jen, this has been fantastic. I'm going to leave it right there.
Jen Curran: Thank you.