Other times it requires thinking outside the box and to look beyond the walls of our industry.
Either way, if you're dedicated to the process, you can create a culture that can overcome almost anything, which allows your agency to become ingrained into your community for decades to come.
Marit Peters, president and executive director of the Independent Insurance Agents of Texas (IIAT), talks about what the best agency do with their talent.
Joey Giangola: Marit Peters, how are you doing today?
Marit Peters: I'm great. How are you, Joey? We've had a fun time putting ourselves together though. So that's always a fun way to start.
Joey Giangola: I mean, you just got to get things right sometimes and you can't stop until you do. Well before we really jump into anything too overly serious, I wanted to know this from you. And is there, I don't even really know how to ask this question, but I want to give it a shot because I think it's going to be interesting. Is there a sequence of events that you either hear or see often enough to where you know what's going to happen before, like once you see the first thing or hear the first thing, you know there's two or three other things that are going to happen and you know just what's coming.
Marit Peters: Wow. That was a complicated one. I thought you were going to give me an easy one out the gate.
Joey Giangola: Sorry. Sorry.
Marit Peters: That's okay. Honestly, the first thing that comes to mind for me is watching people's interactions when somebodies uncomfortable with a situation and you can feel like you're all of a sudden going to end up in a bit of a train wreck, just watching the cues from people in a room, whether it's in a sales process where somebody might be going for the ask too soon, or a new employee who steps on a landmine and you kind of watched. You could see it about to happen and the room kind of shifts just a little bit. And you're just kind of like, where are we going to end up with this at the end of the day? So those are the kinds of the things I guess, that come to mind really quickly, are almost those little micro expressions that happen in a room when you know that doesn't feel right. And we could end up in a train wreck, I guess, is what comes to mind first.
Joey Giangola: That's a great answer. And mine's a little more simple. It's usually I hear three things and the first two are interchangeable. Usually it's a thud and then somebody yells "hey," and then there's usually some form of crying. Sometimes the "hey" comes first and there's a thud and usually a kid has gotten hurt or doing something stupid. And that's just, that's my sequence of events that I constantly hear. But anyways. Well you sort of, we kind of touched on where I wanted to go with that. Right. And into the insurance side of things, and you see a lot of agencies and you see a lot of interactions and you see how they all sort of, some just coming into the business, some that have been established for a while. Is there a pattern or sequence that has popped out to you over the years of agencies as they might look to join the association? Or whatever it is like, is there anything that does stand out to you that you sort of kind of can set your watch to of this happens, then this happens, and then this happens.
Marit Peters: Yeah. I think there's probably some good indications out there on the chances of success for agencies as they're starting up. And it usually has to do with tenacity and hunger, so to speak behind somebody who's starting that up. Right. So being willing to do what it takes and having that grit and not coming in. When I see someone come in who thinks it's going to be fairly easy, and we should be able to put this together, and why aren't the markets just feeding me, kind of a thing.
That's very different than when I see somebody that I work with that you can just feel that deep seated, like we have to get this done. That's a real passion and I'm going to stay up at night and we're going to drive, drive. Even if it is really, really difficult, but they know if I come in hard and I work really hard, it will result in things as opposed to just assuming it's going to show up for me, because I think this industry should be successful. And many agencies are probably successful in spite of themselves at times, which can be, I think that there can be some misgivings then if you're breaking into the industry thinking it shouldn't be that hard.
Joey Giangola: Yeah. I was going to say, where do you think maybe that expectation that it is going to be easy comes from, from your experience? Where are those people coming from that makes them think that insurance is going to be easy, maybe relationship to other past related industries.
Marit Peters: Yeah. I almost maybe equate it to kids who grow up with parents who are successful and you think it's not going to be that hard. I'm going to graduate from college or whatever. I'm going to get a job. It'll be fine. So you don't see what work went into getting to that point in those people's lives. And so I think that happens a little bit with any industry, but if you're really going to build an agency, if you've been around people and you see them successful, and here's one of the things I've heard somebody say once, when you're at the beginning of your career in insurance, you're underpaid. When you're right in the middle of your career, you're about being paid right. And at the end of your career, you're overpaid. So people see folks having sort of a better life in their 40s and 50s because they did the grind at a younger age, but they don't necessarily see what went into that to get to that point where you can enjoy it a little bit more in your lifestyle.
Joey Giangola: Yeah. That's definitely something that isn't easy to see like you said, from the outside or because again, people can coast on a lot of hard work for a really long time. I want to go back to that agency that maybe doesn't assume it's going to be easy. And I guess, what do you guys do or what do you see when there is somebody that has that passion, that tenacity to sort of foster it, make sure that they kind of stick around? And is there anything that they do differently than maybe somebody else?
Marit Peters: Yeah. I mean, two words come to mind are discipline and focus. It's like getting great at a sports team, right? You've got to do the plays, you've got to do the practices, you've got to do the drills. And those organizations that come in are really, really tenacious about building their sales pipeline, doing the calls, asking for the referrals and never letting up. Those are the ones that I think flip the switch faster. Or working on markets, really being tenacious about getting their business plan together, getting out in front, negotiating as hard as possible. But it's really reps. It's at bats over and over and over again. And nobody likes to cold call, but I will tell you one of the agencies that I work with, I mean, their producers are doing 150 to 200 calls a week, which is hard, but the numbers flip and it works out. And some people can play the game and other people can't. And it shows in the results at the end of the day.
But when I work with producers, if they take one week off to go on vacation, they feel that hit in their pipeline. And then it's a matter of, do I actually have the energy to get back at it and keep going, or do I give up or because of successes, I slow down and then it shows up eventually. It's going to catch up eventually. So I think about discipline and focus being really, really key things when you're getting off the ground to get it right until you've got that sort of what I would call that compound effect, right. Those habits are in place. Everything's continues to work. And now I see it starts to look like easier. I've got a producer that I work with and we kind of call him a 10 year overnight success. It took the years of work and then all of a sudden it's like, oh my gosh, he's a million-dollar producer. How did that happen overnight? But it wasn't overnight. It was a lot of years of discipline that then turned into results that started to flip really quick eventually when you end up in that zone.
Joey Giangola: I actually, got cold call by a realtor the other day. Anytime I get a cold call from somebody that's not like an automated thing, I have a tendency just to be nice to them because I knew what it takes to actually dial that. In terms of that, like you said, that momentum, just sort of like, you want to maintain it, right. And when you do start to see agencies grow, there's a wide range, right? So I guess I wanted to talk maybe more about established agencies and what you're seeing happening down in your area in terms of what they're doing to sort of either maintain what they have or find ways to sort of expand and grow out of what they're sort of comfortable doing.
Marit Peters: So I think the key, the ones that are what I would consider very successful, very stable and steady are, first of all, they believe that they've got to grow seven to 10% every year to remain relevant. So just that belief system, that growth is a critical part, generates the mindset and to not get complacent. Well, you know what, our renewals are great. We don't really need to sell that much. And so they've created cultures because of the people that they've hired, right? So they hire people who believe in growth, are willing to put the time in. And for me, I mean, I guess at the end of the day, you can have processes, you can have tools, but if you don't have the right people and you don't cultivate those people and the team the way that you need to, you're always going to be trying to push things uphill.
So the ones that have the right team members that are excited about the drive, the vision of the organization, what it's all about, and frankly, really believe in why they're in their communities. I've got a few organizations right now that are hitting their 100 year anniversary and I asked one of them, think you'd ever sell or leave. And they're so grounded in their communities and they have this personal commitment. We promised we would be here for this community. We would never leave.
And I think when you work with agents that have that belief system, they operate differently and they've got a different kind of a brand and reputation. And those are the ones that I think are really thriving. And they hire people who believe the same thing as well. So if people are in it for money, they're going to get out for money. That we see as well. Of course, we know that there's some financial economic decisions that get made right now as well. Like, is it worth making this money right now? Or should I get the best I can and pull out? But there's a lot of really, really great agencies out there that believe in their communities and believe they've made a promise to their communities and that's part of their DNA.
Joey Giangola: You said two things interesting that I want to sort of touch on. I guess the first is that actual percentage right, you said seven to 10% and that's if you survey agencies, my guess is that would be on the high side. And I think maybe setting that bar aggressively enough, I don't know. Is that something that you think maybe separates those that are okay with two or 3% maybe?
Marit Peters: Absolutely. I mean, I think whatever you come in with the mindset of you're either going to hit it, or you may not quite make it, but you're still going to exceed what the average is out there. One of the fun things is seeing teams work together and be competitive and then know how to celebrate those successes as well. Right. So you don't create a grind out of it. It's actually part of just a winning culture.
Joey Giangola: The other thing you talk about was sort of that community and you guys are obviously down in Texas, but yet, I mean, you have insurance across the country. Is there something that sticks out to you, I guess that happens down in Texas that maybe is different than what the rest of the country expects or does when it comes to relationships or anything with insurance?
Marit Peters: I actually, I'm really fortunate to be able to work with agents across the whole country in a variety of states, in a variety of capacities. As you know, I spend a lot of my time doing business consulting, both with associations and with agencies. And so I guess what I would say it"s more about, I think that the DNA behind an independent agent is being leaders in their own communities and being part of that. And so I don't know that I would say Texas is different. I'm sure my Texas listeners would say, okay, come on Marit. Everything's better in Texas. Of course, it is. I mean, the economy is strong in Texas, which helps, of course. I'm sure that that creates a lift that's helpful for things. Where you live in Texas also can make a big difference.
You live in some places that don't have a lot of catastrophes and so forth. And you've got other areas that if you're in tier one and on the coast, or you're in DFW and you're dealing with hail, how those people are interacting with their clients may look very different, but that's no different than across the coast, along the coast all the way around it. So I don't know. I just think independent agents themselves stand out because they're usually in it for the community and being leaders in their communities and taking care of them.
Joey Giangola: You'd mentioned about, like you said, working with a wider arrange of agencies and this kind of goes back to like, kind of spotting the pattern or whatever. But when you get around somebody, I guess you sort of get a sense pretty quickly that, oh, this is going to be a good one or is there something that does stand out to you? Like get a whiff of it and like, boy, they really have their stuff together. I don't know if you can pick up on it that quickly or if there is anything.
Marit Peters: Honestly, in today's day and age, it's are you willing to invest? I would say your attitude towards investment, investment in people, investment in technology, investment in new ideas, I think are really key. So when I get somebody who wants to maintain that sort of brick and mortar, we don't want to spend too much money, the attitude of things are costs rather than investment. I read a book, it's a John Maxwell book, How Successful People Lead and they were talking about, you look at your balance sheet, you talk about your greatest assets and technology and so forth. And on the balance sheet, we depreciate them year over year and they kind of talk about how with our assets, we need to be appreciating them every year, whether that's investing in growth, and development, and so forth. And I love that attitude, right? That's, we're going to have to invest. And it's not an expense that you're looking at when you're looking at your people, your technology, and so forth and attitude, frankly, I think are really key pieces.
Joey Giangola: That's always been the conversation, right, of the agency that does sort of get stagnant and just sort of, kind of is doing what they've done, doing what they always done. I guess if you had to put your pulse on that conversation, what is the thing that you hear agents talking about the most? What is the thing that they are, I would say most concerned about, but where do you hear the most conversation going back and forth and relates to whether it isn't investing in their agency or what they should be doing?
Marit Peters: Yeah. I mean, I think two things really rise to the top. Interestingly enough, this morning we did an agent's round table. And I mean, people are really struggling with hiring people right now and finding talent. That tends to always right now pop up at the top. And if you don't have the right people then investing in the rest, I don't know really if that matters. But I've never had so many phone calls on a regular basis saying I'm trying to hire someone and I can't find anyone. I don't know what that's about out there, but it's a true phenomenon I believe. People are desperate for new ideas and you're going to have to look outside the industry to find it. It's not going to be what I call recycling employees. Usually the ones, if it's a great culture and a strong organization, your best people are going to stay and your worst people are going to look and you don't want to be the person picking those people up. Right.
So it's being able to find top talent that may be in the wrong place right now that would be better suited in your own organization. But I think hiring comes to the top. And I think keeping up with technology is the other big piece because, and I don't know if it's so much keeping up with technology, but it's keeping up with the perception of there's so many tools and what if I'm missing something that is stressing people out at the end of the day. So, when you hear all of these different Insure Techs that are popping up all over the place, no small business person and even a large agency is going to have a hard time figuring out how to continue to vet them. Is that reasonable for me? Should I be up front? Should I not? And the amount of time and utilization adoption, all of that stuff is tough. I've always been a pretty simple person. Get the core stuff really great, and right and then work refined from there. And don't be playing with all the toys all the time or you're going to spin.
Joey Giangola: Shiny object syndrome. I heard it"s the stuff [crosstalk].
Marit Peters: I like shiny objects. I'll admit it. I think that's why my staff is glad I'm out of the office more than half the time so that I'm not too shiny object around here.
Joey Giangola: Yeah. Makes sense. Well, so the other thing, this is another debate, I guess, or maybe a conversation point of the idea of bringing talent into the industry and bringing it from the outside versus bringing it in. Because bringing it from the outside obviously does bring a fresh perspective, but insurance is complicated and it does take a long time to learn. And there's sort of this constant push and pull between, do they have enough insurance knowledge? Do they have enough fresh ideas? Is there anything that you've seen that works to sort of balance that equation?
Marit Peters: Yeah. I mean, one of the conversations we tend to talk about is the quickest way to get somebody on board, let's say a producer, even a good customer service person is niche oriented, right? So let's not be a generalist, let's be a specialist. I can do a repeat over and over and over again so that it's quicker to understand what the nuances are. But the thing that I really like is when I see agencies and let's use construction as an example. I mean, you could even do medical. I don't really care. But when they go find somebody that's already in that lane who's known as a professional in that industry and bring them over to the insurance side to learn the insurance piece. So they show up with credibility right out the gate. They're not trying to prove to people in that industry that, hey, you should trust me in insurance because they trust you as a construction expert, let's say, or whatever that industry is.
So I really love it when I see people go out there and find somebody who understands that business and that's their specialty. And now we're going to teach them how to look at it through a different light. The adoption's quicker, the learning's faster, clients respect them quicker. So I think it's a nice model that I see at times.
Joey Giangola: Yeah. It's like changing your major in college to something a little more related. So you don't lose all the credits, but you still get some.
Marit Peters: That's right.
Joey Giangola: That's an interesting way to put it. I don't have any experience with that Marit. I wouldn't know what that's about. Well, so yeah, so that's interesting in terms of getting somebody up to speed. I was going to say, if you had like an example that stood out to you, it sounds like construction maybe might be one, but-
Marit Peters: Yeah. Farming is another one honestly. I'm talking to an agency right now where they are about to hire. So, we'll find out kind of a thing, but they are in the farm and crop area, in a rural area. And they are about to hire somebody who does sales to those farmers already, but they sell product that's equipment, not insurance. So they're already known in the business, they know all the prospects, they know the community, they're already respected as a sales person. So it's dropping them in now and bringing a different product at the end of the day, which is a great way to open doors and kind of bring that list of clients to the table.
Joey Giangola: Do you have one thing that you think is most important that you tell every agency that's willing to listen? That of your travels and experiences, this is the one thing that you find to be the most important over and over again.
Marit Peters: I think people and culture. If you don't have that right, I don't think the rest of it really matters that much. And that's something that I've always resonated with. I like to think about how do you engage your employees? How do you get them to work on the business with you, not just in the business? How do you create a culture that's very flat and people can contribute. And they may not be able to be owners, which would be great, but at least there's an ownership mentality of this is mine. Giving them the authority to make the decisions that they need to make. Hire logical people, help them understand your values, hire them for the right values and then let them go be themselves. And I also really strongly believe in understanding what people's core talents are and putting them in the right seat.
So, it frustrates me when I see someone take somebody and say, well, I have my own ideas of what your job should be, and they're not wired to be that. And they're failing and they're stressed out and they're miserable. When if we could just flip them into a different seat and allow them to be themselves, you'd get so much more out of them and they'd enjoy their jobs a lot more. So to me, it's about really understanding your people and who they really are, how they tick and give them... Now we're not a charity. So if you don't need that talent, don't hire it. But if it's a talent you can put in the right place, then giving people that freedom to use it, I think is really key and not get caught up in either titles or, I guess I'll say it, it tends to still be fairly sexist industry where producers are a lot of men and service people are a lot of women. And I'll go in and do talent assessments in an agency and find two or three women that just pop out as amazing sales talent.
And they've never been given the opportunity. And in one scenario I went and said, well, why don't we let them do sales? And they said, well, they don't want to be on commission. They don't like the risk. And I said, do you think they'll work less hard if they are on salary doing sales? No, they're a great worker. Well, do you want to ask them? And I mean, she'd been dying to do sales, but the risk... So it's thinking a little bit differently of what people's needs are. So you can tap into what's going to make them great and enjoy their lives.
Joey Giangola: All right Marit, I've got three more questions for you.
Marit Peters: Okay. All right.
Joey Giangola: First one, simply what's one thing you hope you never forget?
Marit Peters: To be grateful. A lot of people help you get to where you are in life and what you and the team around you. And from the time you were a little baby, right, all the way up till at any day of the week. And even the tough people that I've worked around, they taught me a lesson that I learned, whether I didn't want to be that way or whatever. And so I think gratitude is something I never want to forget.
Joey Giangola: All right. Now, on the other side of that, what's one thing you still have yet to learn?
Marit Peters: I have a lot to learn. I think being able to influence the right people at the right time. I think that's a key piece and another piece that I'm learning, I'm not great at it. I'm a sucker for trying to help people out. So I'd like to get better at knowing when to step away. That's not going to be worth the time. I know you want to save that. You want to do a great job, but sometimes it's not the right place, the right voice. And frankly I have learned and I need to continue to learn that there are some organizations that what I believe doesn't fit and it can break them because it's not who we are. So just because that's what I believe, I want to make sure that I'm working with organizations that are really, truly believe that. And don't come in and just try and do it as a silver bullet. And then you suddenly break that organization because that's definitely not their culture. So I think continuing to be sensitive to what the right fit is for the right reasons is I think, really important.
Joey Giangola: All right. Marit, last question to you. If I were to hand you a magic wand of sorts to reshape change, alter, speed up, really any part of insurance, what is that thing? Where is it going? And what's it doing?
Marit Peters: I would say, and I think we're in the middle of it right now with the transition in generations, but we still are a lot of agencies that are very top down, come in, put your head down, do your work. And if I could get people to really spend the time with their employees, reminding them how important their work is, like spending the time every day thanking their employees for you. You make people whole. We deliver on a promise when really bad stuff happens. If everybody could be more proud of being in this industry, people say I have a hard time attracting talent and I wonder if that isn't a part of, I'm a little embarrassed to say what I do so I don't tell people. When there's so much pride in what people do. So I guess that would be a big thing, to get people to really believe in what they're doing and why it's important and get their employees to feel that sense of pride.
And I guess on that note, what I'll say, I always say to people, when you do bonuses in this industry, don't do it at the end of the quarter, end of the year, when you had a strong financial year. Do it right after a hurricane, when everyone had to work their hearts out for a month, trying to take care of the community because that's what's should be rewarded as a higher purpose, not just the financial elements at some sort of innocuous day. So that's kind of what I would maybe say as an answer.
Joey Giangola: Marit, this has been fantastic. I'm going to leave it right there.
Marit Peters: All right. Well, thanks for your time.