How to Have More Relevant Priorities for a Better Agency

Sometimes they're worth keeping and others require a much more objective examination.

It's not every day you allow yourself broad awareness to see the foundation of the agency through a different lens.

Often times the only way to get there is to take a hard step back and simply ask "what's possible?"

Meg McKeen, founder of Adjunct Advisors, talks about the dynamics she's witnessed across the industry and which ones need to be moved to the top of the list.

Joey Giangola: Meg McKeen, how you doing today?

Meg McKeen: I'm doing great. How are you, Joey?

Joey Giangola: Meg I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. I want to know this before we get into really anything. And that is, have you ever experienced just a moment where you thought it was wildly out of touch and you couldn't really understand what was happening around you?

Meg McKeen: What is the day? What day of the week is it today? How many times today have I felt that? No, we are definitely in an interesting time collectively right now. And I've certainly had my own moments over the years where you just kind of scratch your head and you take a step back and you wonder what's it all about? What's going on here, for sure.

Joey Giangola: I'm going to give you something oddly specific. And there's a lot to take in into this statement. For me, it wasn't too long ago, maybe a week or so ago, I was at a mall. So that's the first thing you need to get over. I was actually at a mall. Two, there was a children's organization, blaring Michael Jackson's music offering for people to take pictures with a person wearing a Michael Jackson like character outfit. And I thought, I guess that's the way you could promote your organization. It was just one of the strangest combinations of events that you could possibly have. And I thought it was very interesting Meg. In terms of insurance, we have our own moments where we are maybe accused of being further out of touch than we care to be, nearing your conversations with agents across the country, what stands out, I guess I'll take one of two things. Is there a consistent one that you run across often or two? What is maybe the most egregious one that you think really needs to be made more headway on?

Meg McKeen: Yeah, we talk about this a lot in the industry and it's become a bit of, I think we gloss over it, but this concept of the way we've always done it is the way that it needs to be. And I see, I'll back up a little bit, one of my personal passions is live music. I love supporting independent musicians and going to shows and have really missed that during pandemic times. And I'm glad that it's back. But one of my favorite song lyrics is by a band called The Alternate Routes out of Connecticut. And the line is we can fight to change or we can fight to stay the same. And I think in insurance, we fight to stay the same a lot because we don't always see the opportunity that's really in front of us.

I think I personally represent the opportunity as a woman, as a professional woman, as a woman in sales, and also the way that I've approached my career with some interesting, curious twists and turns. And then the work that I do now, I think really represents a non-threatening different way to view our industry in the way that we conduct business. But I also understand change is hard and I have struggled with change over the years too, and try every day to be a bit of a bridge and to ease some of the pain and the anxiety that comes with change.

Joey Giangola: You said threaten, I thought that was interesting in terms of how do you go about diffusing that, if you're somebody who feels like they're in an agency or something where doing something different is possibly threatening to the overall success, because again, success is successful for a reason, and it's hard if you don't have any to sort your way around it. How do you get in there with any sort of validation and to ease into whatever might need to happen?

Meg McKeen: One of the advantages I think that a lot of individuals who are, I'll say new to the industry, but new in maybe 10 years of experience or less, is that they have likely been in other places, they may have even been in other industries, certainly different roles within our industry. And that is the nature of work today is that we're not putting our heads down and typically committing to one organization or one role for the entirety of our career. And one of the things at the core of what I do is coaching. So I'm working with these individuals one-on-one and we talk a lot about leading up. And so sometimes we have to, wherever we fit in the organizational chart, be that sort of fresh perspective in, again, that non-threatening way.

How do you do that one day at a time, one idea at a time, patience, not broad sweeping change on day a one, but really putting your head down and understanding how does the organization work? And that you truly have a benefit having seen a perspective that maybe the person who is running that agency, who's only ever worked there literally only ever four walls of the cubicle or the office that they've ever seen, that perspective can be such an advantage. So I think slowing down and being patient that change doesn't happen overnight but we can absolutely be a catalyst for change is pretty cool.

Joey Giangola: This is a little out there. I don't know if there's really an answer for it, but let's see what happens. Have you ever come across, because I always come out from a lot of like, I take a lot of whatever I think the way that I think about it and I sort of think, oh, well maybe they think about it this way. And I guess somebody that maybe lacks a perspective or is maybe not found a way to open themselves up to expressing it and communicating it, have you come across a scenario where maybe somebody has a good idea or something, but they're just not maybe accessing it in the right way. Again, like I said, I don't know if there's necessarily a question or an answer there, but it's an interesting dynamic I've experienced over the years of different people who really just are constantly going with ideas and things where other people feel like they're a little more reserved in that. I guess maybe is there a way to discover the confidence in whatever ideas you might have underneath the surface?

Meg McKeen: I love the question and I do think there are so many to directions you can go or we can go in response. I'm a sociologist by heart. My insurance career is an accident. What I'm here for and what I love and embrace are the people and not the relationships we say that it's a relationship business, but it's really, truly, why are we here? What makes us great? How do we leverage that more often and give ourselves a break when that performance review comes out and there's the one thing that you need to work on? How can we move beyond that and accept who we are and embrace and leverage that. So I think in those moments, when we're maybe meeting some resistance to change, it's really remembering who the person is on the other side of that conversation.

And this is where someone who in my not quiet, strong opinion, someone who is high in self-awareness, someone who is high and working on their own emotional intelligence is really going to thrive in our business going forward, whether you're pitching that idea to the manager or the owner of your agency, or you are a salesperson trying to build trust and confidence from a potential client, your ability to understand and see their position in that conversation is going to get you the best results and the best outcome. An example, I think is technology in our business. I've been around long enough, 23 years that we've seen technology go from an afterthought to being a driver of business and decision making.

An agency that's been in business for a hundred years and is on maybe it's third or fourth generation owner may likely be resistant to technology in their agency because they don't understand it, they haven't needed it, it's expensive, it's overwhelming. It's a huge opportunity for someone who's newer to the industry, who's got their ear to the ground and is paying attention to what's going on to come in and again, be that bridge, maybe soften the discomfort or the unfamiliarity with something new.

Joey Giangola: Yeah, as we are sort of talking around just the position of somebody that might be in the agency, not in a decision making role, I guess, what have you experienced in terms of like having it be actually a place that's comforting and accepting of again, suggestions, opinions, and really allowing the people there to contribute to the overall direction. Is there something, a common theme that you noticed in terms of agency owners that do create an environment that breeds some of that, that welcomes their staff to have a little bit more of an active and everything?

Meg McKeen: I think one of the things that leaders struggle with and it's through no fault of their own, we already talked about it, in many cases, the only place they've ever worked is where they are today. And so they lack a certain perspective, no fault of theirs. But I think delegation is tough. I know as a personal anecdote, I was actually chatting with my father. My folks were self-employed when I was growing up, they're retired now, but they ran a sales agency, sold construction equipment. And my dad was the outside sales mind. And my mom was the one in the office who really made it happen. And they were a great team. And everything I learned about sales, I learned sitting at the dining room table over dinner from them being a fly on the wall. I've read a lot of books and I've sat through lots of training and that certainly helped, but fundamentally customer service and sales are rooted in that experience.

And I was chatting with my dad not too long ago and I said, "Dad, of all the things that you could have outsourced or delegated in your business, what was the last thing you would've let go?" And he said, "Sales, it's the last thing I would've let go. It's what got me up in the morning." He was motivated by winning the deal. Obviously the financial result, if that's a motivator for you. And so the last thing he would've done, would've been to hire someone to come in and lead sales. And I think about an agency owner who is largely likely successful in sales and how hard it can be to offload that responsibility to someone else. And so I say, if you can't or you choose not to, or you feel so much resistance there that you want to stay in that leadership position from a sales perspective, you have to let the other stuff go.

And you have to trust that opening up a line item on your budget to hire an operations person, to hire a marketing person, to hire someone to manage when Susie comes in 15 minutes late from lunch and Johnny needs another day at PTO that he's not eligible for, trust that you can hire those people and you can outsource those responsibilities so that you can stay in that place where not only do you have the greatest impact, but you also get the greatest amount of joy because we deserve that, right. We deserve that in this business for all the grinding and the hustling that we do, we sure ought to find that place of alignment.

Joey Giangola: Well, that's interesting because the cliché term is you have to get out of the business to work on the business, right. That sort of thing. And the interesting part about it is that your dad and like you said to agency owners is really leaning into the thing that really gets you going. And so often we feel guilted possibly into needing to do something a certain way, because that's what somebody said you needed to do. I wanted maybe take it a little further. You mentioned a couple key areas to where you might want to get some stuff off your plate, but what does that look like? I mean, how far should somebody look to consider, like you said, removing themselves from certain areas of the business to hire key people in those areas. I mean, how over obsessed should they be in that to maintain their sort of bubble of sales and leading the agencies? Is there any... I don't know, again, I'm just kind of curious if you've seen it, how far someone's been able to take it.

Meg McKeen: Yeah. Well, one of the things I've resisted really my whole career, but particularly in this chapter of my own entrepreneurial story is that there isn't one right way. And so a lot of what we're looking for is give me the magic formula, whether it's building a business or it's in a book of business, if you're in sales, tell me if I make 60 cold calls every day that eventually I'm going to hit my revenue goal. We all want that, right. And so I would say sometimes as a leader of an agency, we over-engineer it. We think that we need all of these positions filled and we need all of these areas of expertise, but we don't really stop to take a step back and say, maybe we've already got someone here who can stretch or flex into that role. Maybe we've got a key account manager who is on her way.

And maybe we can have her pick up additional responsibility and pay her accordingly, which I think is a huge piece of this is really recognizing talent and compensating for it. And so maybe it doesn't have to be this prescribed org chart, right. And this comfort and this knowing that your agency is going to look different than the one down the street, your motivation is different, your end goal is different and there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't know how to do that, this is totally self-serving, hire somebody to help you figure it out. Whether it's a coach or a consultant, lean on the minds of the industry that have seen other agencies from the inside out, because we're out there and sit with them for an hour or two or however long you need to, to start to see your own business through a different lens. It's a really important and underutilized perspective.

Joey Giangola: Well, you mentioned pay and we'll say the correct compensation structures. And I would say back to being a little, maybe not with where reality sits today is that maybe there's a little updating that maybe needs to be done looking around because how much of our retention... We'll say the ability to retain and attract young talent, maybe stems from a lot of the things that we have just chalked up to. Well, this is the way always has been. And maybe we need to reexamine those things. Is there something that in terms of those areas, you find causing more problems than they should?

Meg McKeen: I'll say this there's been so much attention and so much focus placed on talent right now. And so nothing I'm going to say is going to be new or revolutionary. Though, I do think sometimes we need to hear things 17 times before they really sink in, gone are the days as we know where you'll find the best account manager or service person, 15 miles from your agency and she's going to be glad to work for you because she gets to go home for lunch and let the dog out, those days are gone. And so the talent pool has opened up in a time when it's shrinking as well. And so we have to start to reconsider what does the relationship between our work look like and our life, where does it fit in? This whole work life balance thing we have learned and continue to learn.

It's not a thing. It's not the goal. It's this idea of integration where we get stuck is the trust that leadership has, that the people that they have hired and that they have empowered will actually do the work. And I believe by and large, the vast majority of them will. They might have a basketball game on, on the big screen when they're working from home in their living room, they might take an hour at lunch to walk the dog and then come back to the computer at seven o'clock when the kids are asleep and I'm here for it. I think there's a way that we can all get where we want to go and really respect the place that work has in our lives, in our existence.

Joey Giangola: Yeah, the trust thing's really interesting, right. Because that always blew my mind. It's like if you had to worry about what your people are doing, or if they're working, it feels like you've already lost that battle. It's more of a lack of trust maybe in your decision, which I always thought to be sort of this counterproductive exercise that I would run across. And like you said, things need to be said 17 times, but in the reality of it is how accepting from your perspective do you think we are of that adjustment and how much more progress needs to be made?

Meg McKeen: I mean, I'd like to say that the numbers are getting better but early in my career, I spent quite a bit of time as a field underwriter. So I was sitting in agencies and I would meet the new producer on a Monday morning and there would be this excitement and this enthusiasm, and also this skepticism is this person actually going to make it? Is it actually going to work out? And the statistics are what they are, the vast majority of them don't frankly. And they still don't. And I think that goes back to, are we hiring, not the right people, but are we being really honest with ourselves in the hiring process? Have we gotten excited about the promise and the potential both ways, right? I'm very open on LinkedIn. I just shared some commentary about the carrot that we dangle in sales in particular and that's money, revenue, commission.

We think that's the motivator for people. I would argue it's not that, or at least not that to the extreme that we talk about producer compensation. We've got to start talking about alignment and ability to do quality work that fits within our own value system and impact. And those are not things that are typically coming up when we're talking with eager salespeople about commission sales. And so I think we're getting closer. I think people like you who are asking these thoughtful questions and frankly, people like me who have put my livelihood on the line to say these things out loud are making a difference. We're chipping away at it, but still, there's so much churn at the producer level. It is hard work. It is hard work, we are often woefully underqualified to be having the conversations that we're having when we're early in our sales careers and our credibility goes out the window as a result. I don't think it needs to be that way, but it still is by and large.

Joey Giangola: So let's just imagine for a moment that we had the power here and I was going to say, Meg, you get to reprioritize the way, we'll say an agency, agency owner pick any direction you want, but what would your sort of reprioritization be sort of 1, 2, 3, maybe just give me the hits real quick of how you would reprioritize the thinking and structure.

Meg McKeen: I would like every agency leader to start their day asking their employees how they're feeling, period. I'd like to change the way that producers are compensated, moving away from a commission model and more of a fee for service model. I think the work we do is too valuable to have the living that we earn attached to the size of the policy that we sell. My background as an agent was in primarily small business that I would earn an average of $15 in commission after everybody got their share, it's criminal for what we do and the knowledge that I brought to the table. There's ways to work around that, of course, because that's the third piece is technology. Do you have the right people in the right role? Are you viewing technology as an investment in your people or overhead? And once you understand, and you recognize that by bringing in technology over here allows the human capital that you have over there to really thrive and be at their best, I think change will happen.

Joey Giangola: All right, Meg, I've got three more questions for you.

Meg McKeen: Yes.

Joey Giangola: And the first one, very simply, what is one thing you hope you never forget?

Meg McKeen: Oh my gosh. To be frank, this moment in time, I mean here with you, of course, but this season of life that I'm in, I'm not shy, I'm in my early forties, I'm single, I've lived a lot of life and there's a lot left ahead, but I've often thought about this chapter of my story. And if I live to be a hundred, will this be a time in my life that I'm thinking about and that I'm reflecting on and I know that it absolutely will be. And that's a pretty cool moment. I'm in it. I think we're always so in it in the moment that sometimes we need to take a step back and really look at where we are and where we've been and where we're heading with a little bit more introspection, I would say.

Joey Giangola: Now on the other side of that, what is one thing you still have yet to learn?

Meg McKeen: I care a lot about what other people think, I always have. And it's something that I've been working with in therapy. And my coach is really taking the lead on my life and not without consideration for other people, but making sure that I put that feedback and those ideas and those expectations in the right bucket when I'm making decisions about not just my work, but my life and how I show up and who I show up for.

Joey Giangola: All right, Meg, last question to you. I might have asked it in a roundabout way, just like a few minutes ago, but we'll see how it goes. If I were to hand you a magic wand of sort to reshape change, alter speed up, really any part of insurance, what's that thing? Where is it going? And what's it doing?

Meg McKeen: It is really recognizing that we are whole people that show up every day to work in this industry and that for so long, we've been encouraged to leave the parts that make us uniquely ourselves at the door. And I think it's those things that make us different and make us unique and make us the people that others want to work for and work with depending on our role. And I would love to see an embracing of us as whole people instead of the parts that influence our work.

Joey Giangola: Meg, this has been fantastic, [inaudible] right there.

Meg McKeen: I love it. Thanks. What great questions, I love this stuff.