How to Focus on the Best Mixture of Opportunities

No matter what, it's going to take time to find it.

However, the sooner you apply more intention to that process, the better.

Because there are a lot of benefits that come with being honest about the opportunity in front of you.

Not only will you know the proper amount of time and attention to give it, but so will everyone else working on that account.

Those people, especially underwriters, will appreciate that unexpected context most agents neglect to provide.

RPS Executive Vice President James Rozzi, talks about how he created his ideal opportunity mixture in the property and construction space.

Joey Giangola: Mr. James Rozzi. How are you doing today, sir?

James Rozzi: Yeah. Great, Joey. I appreciate you guys inviting me on today.

Joey Giangola: Joey Giangola: Mr. James Rozzi. How are you doing today, sir?

James Rozzi: Yeah. Great, Joey. I appreciate you guys inviting me on today.

Joey Giangola: I was going to maybe start at a different direction, but given your background, I've got to know, what's your greatest sports memory?

James Rozzi: My greatest sports memory. Geez, I'll tell you what, I would say this past year, watching the 9ers beat the Packers in the NFC championship game live at Levi's Stadium and seeing them return to their glory days was probably the best sports memory. Subsequent to that, I attended college in Boston and was in town when the Red Sox won their first World Series after their prolonged drought. And so just being in that city with the energy around that team was incredible. And my friends and I, like typical college students, decide to leave our dorm and then head downtown, and I didn't say we took part in the riots, but we definitely took part in some of the festivities around celebrating the first World Series for them in a very long time.

Joey Giangola: So, with the 9ers, I was going to say, up until the fact that you were telling me that you were actually there, I was like, "Really, you're going to pick an NFC championship game over watching the Golden State Warriors win a title, or the Giants winning a World Series." I was going to have to question that a little bit [crosstalk 00:01:23].

James Rozzi: I'm a big football fan. I grew up playing football. I played football in high school. I've been into playing baseball in college as well. I lived in San Francisco when the Giants won their three World Series. So that was fantastic. I actually lived across the street, a little condo, literally a block from the ballpark. So we were there for that energy and that was a lot of fun. And I actually had someone tell me once that I must be good luck for a lot of sports teams because wherever I go, the team seemed to win. So when I was in college, you had the Patriots obviously dominating the NFL and then you had the Red Sox go on their run. At the same time, the Bruins and the Celtics were also pretty good.

James Rozzi: So when I was living in Boston, you had some really quality sport teams there. Came home, moved back to the Bay area, and then you had obviously the Giants go on their baseball tarry. You had the San Jose Sharks play some pretty good hockey, had a pretty good run making the playoffs just about every year and then ended up losing a Pittsburgh in the Stanley Cup. And then you had the 9ers end up in one Super Bowl appearance, and then a couple of NFC championships that are Jim Harbaugh, only to fall to one of the worst teams in NFL and then rise back up.

James Rozzi: So just as a big football fan, I followed them the most. I'm not a huge basketball fan, but given what's behind me, the Warriors and their run has been incredible. I was actually at a couple of their championship games, same with the Giants. And so I've been able to see some really cool sport experiences, which is I think why it's hard to just pick one, but I think... Growing up, I remember, it was Steve Young and Brett Favre, and so there was that big rivalry between the Packers and the 9ers, so I gravitate to that first. It was that idea that, "Hey, this is our chance to finally get back at all those years where Brett Favre was beating us."

James Rozzi: And here we have Aaron Rogers and Jimmy Garoppolo. So two younger guys, one's going to be younger than the other, but they're going head to head. I was at the game with some really good friends. We had killer seats and it was just an awesome game to be at. And they dominated from the start. So that was pretty nice.

Joey Giangola: Well, James now, actually just while we're talking, I've started drafting plans for like a guest house at my place. You can pick it out, whatever you want in there, we'll decorate it nice. I'll even let you put some more of your stuff up, but just maybe come hang out in the Cleveland area for a little bit, and we'll see what that does for our teams. I don't know. We could use [crosstalk 00:03:47].

James Rozzi: There you go. I don't know. We'll see. We've got to get sports back first. Once that happens, we can decide about those plans.

Joey Giangola: A very sobering thought indeed. I want to talk about, you said this kind of success, at least on the sports field, follows you where ever you're at, happened in the world of insurance too. One question, I was curious to ask you, what do you think the biggest difference between the wholesale side of things and the retail side of things? What do you think the differences is being successful on the wholesale side of things versus being a retail agent? Selling direct to consumer versus what it is that you're doing, and how agents maybe can go about it to find a little more success?

James Rozzi: Yeah. I think success is really the result of hard work, and so you got to create good habits whether you're a retail book or a wholesale broker. And the more work and effort you put in learning your craft, whether it's insurance or any other profession, the more successful, in my opinion, you're likely going to end up being at it. You look at some of these folks that play pro sports, and they have genetics on their side, they're dominant athletes and generally speaking, they're just wired a bit differently and built a bit differently than most other folks, your average person. But at the end of the day, they're practicing their craft to be the best at it. And let's take Tiger Woods as an example. Every day, all day, and hitting their 10,000 hours of expertise.

James Rozzi: And so when I think about the difference between our retail clients and myself as a wholesale broker, it really comes down to just our audience. My audience is a more educated insurance person per se. Because as someone who has a licensed transaction insurance and is advising customers on how to prop properly buy insurance day in and day out. So my expertise as property-focused, even marine-focused, construction-focused is really to demonstrate to my client base that I know everything about my craft and I can be more focused on the specifics of the property world. Whereas I think a retail broker needs to be more focused on the specifics or risk management and understanding the client's concern. We still have to understand our retailers concerns their customers, but end of the day, they come to us looking for a product.

James Rozzi: They're coming to me looking for CAT property coverage, or hard-to-place brush stone business because of wildfires in California, their customers are coming to them and they're asking them, "Hey, how do I make sure that if the worst happens to me, my business survives or my family survives and so on and so forth." So I think that the difference between the two roles to, if I'm answering your question correctly, it's the more consultative holistic approach that retailers have to go through and also making what can be a pretty complex business seems simple.

James Rozzi: Because at the end of the day when you ask people about insurance, most people want to talk to you about their healthcare, their homeowner's coverage and their auto. But they're not going to sit there and talk to you about the TRIA Act. They're not going to talk you about doing wind and hail buy-downs in Colorado to lower deductible levels. They're not going to talk to you about catastrophic modeling. They just don't know that aspect of the business. So a retailer, in order for them to be more successful, I think keep it simple and make sure you understand what your customers ultimately are looking for to give them the protection they need when, when bad things happen.

Joey Giangola: What's your secret to simplifying that communication?

James Rozzi: I don't spend as much time talking to the buyer, so I don't have to make it as simple. My secret is really just trying to make sure that when clients come to me, they know that whatever they get back will be the absolute best product in the market, that I'm going to work as hard as humanly possible to go to as many capacity providers as we have access to, to get them the best possible coverage at the best possible price. And those are the two things that we focus on in our transaction as a wholesale broker. It's gets you the coverage you need and make sure that when we're working with other retail clients, they understand the right CAT limits to buy or the right coverage. That will be important just because we see losses, we see hard to place business.

James Rozzi: That's why people come to wholesale brokers because it's going to fall outside of the standard market. So we need to make sure we're meeting their coverage needs, and that we're getting them coverage at a competitive premium. And then after that, my other kind of, I would call it secret to success is just, don't forget that these are annual contracts, that you still need to service this business that you need to take care of this client when there's a claim question or a coverage question. You don't just quote it, bind it, work it, forget about it. It's a 365 days a year job in the sense that you never know when they're going to need you, or you never know when a question is going to pop up, but they can't answer. And so I think you just need to constantly be available to people to make sure that you're getting them what they want and that they feel that your team is able to give them sound advice and, sound coverage, and a sound product day in and day out.

Joey Giangola: Yeah. You mentioned property and construction, what's going on there. What types of conversations are you having? What should agents be paying attention to help that process along to get the results they're looking for?

James Rozzi: These days it's just communication. And I would say start the process as early as possible. The COVID pandemic has caused a lot of problems for the insurance industry, and there's still intense debates about whether or not BI claims will be covered, particularly in the property arena. There's definitely some minister policies out there where I think clients will find communicable disease, coverages that are built into these policies, particularly the hospitality world and maybe even in some retail and restaurant chain business. But as a result of all the uncertainty in insurance, just like the stock market, they don't like uncertainty. And property markets in particular have lost a lot of money in the last few years as you got hit with major hurricane claims from Harvey or Irma, Maria, and then you had a rate environment that had gone downward for the better part of a decade.

James Rozzi: So you had these low rates, you have these big claims and then you have now a pandemic that is affecting businesses at all levels. And so I think if I'm sitting in a retail agent's shoes, start the conversation early with your insurer to prep them about where the market is, how problematic it is for some of these carriers to forecast their own financial futures. And as a result of all that, you need to start prepping them for ways in which they could save money come renewal time, and ultimately to prep them for what a likely be. If you don't want to take on more risks with larger deductible retentions or potentially lower the CAT limits you buy it, which is also a risk taking venture then insurance rates are going to be up.

James Rozzi: In my entire career I've just thought, you don't need to blow smoke to people. You give them an honest answer when they ask you a question, that's why they're asking it. That's why they've hired you. That's why they work with you. And if you give people the truth, it might not be really what they want to hear, but at least you can go to bed every night telling yourself that you're giving your clients the most accurate information, best possible coverage at the best possible price. And if you focus on those three things, again, it might not always be what people want to hear, but it's something that helps me sleep at night, knowing I'm doing what's best for my customers.

Joey Giangola: In terms of the property market. Is there an area whether geographically favorable or industry related that you would say is maybe, sweet spot might be overused term, but is there a place that agents should be maybe putting more of their attention with everything that's going on? Is there places they should be looking to make adjustments on?

James Rozzi: Yeah. I see a lot of accounts that come through our door where you have clients who, and by clients, I'm more speaking to the insurance buyers, so they have large property schedules and they're still pursuing these lower deductible programs. And what I mean, lower deductible programs, I'm going to say you have an average customer who owns, let's say half a billion dollars worth of real estate, and he's still walking around with a 25K deductible policy. I think those policies are areas in which, if you're an agent, that's a new business opportunity because there's a lot of things you can do to provide your clients a better risk transfer discussion and risk transfer a new product, because there's a deductible level that likely needs to be raised.

James Rozzi: Because what you'll find is you have these programs where the deductibles are too low, or even in some cases, the limits are too high. And if there's no lender driven need there, you have a customer who's probably buying either too much insurance or insurance at too much of a premium because they're trading dollars off the frequency of claims they probably have at those low deductibles. And so, one of the things we do with a lot of these larger real estate clients is we do a full analysis of, "Okay, well, here's your CAT loss PML, here's what the wind model says, here's what the earthquake model says."

James Rozzi: And then we look at your loss history over a five or 10 year period and we do a loss stratification and say, "Okay, well, if you raise your deductible from 25 to 100, we can save you, call it 25%, let's just use round numbers. And that would equate to, let's just call it a $100,000 a year." But in return, you're taking on $50,000 a year, more of loss based on the way your stratification works. So ultimately you're saving $50,000. And the other thing that I think a lot of clients don't quite appreciate is that as soon as you go to these higher deductible levels, you're engaging a number of new markets that can now compete on your business.

James Rozzi: Because previously, if you say, "Hey, I must have a 10K, I must have a 25K deductible," then there's a good portion of the insurance market, particularly in the wholesaling world, that's just going to decline because they don't want to write business at those deductible levels. And if you raise the deductible levels and you purchase the appropriate CAT limits, and you move to maybe a layered share program versus a standard 100% type direct, written placement, you're, you're creating competition. And if you create competition, it's the same in any other industry, the more competition you have, usually, the better result you're going to end up with for or the insurance buyer or for the consumer.

Joey Giangola: How much of that conversation is taking place with the agent and the actual end insured? Is there some of the education process on your part happening when you do have an agent bring you that piece of business and say, "Listen, these are a couple of things that you want to take into account." Does that need to trickle down maybe a little bit more to help agents maybe open up more potential and opportunity for them to attract new clients?

James Rozzi: Yeah. I think it does. A lot of our clients, we spend a lot of time talking to them about, "Here's some things that we're going to," I don't want to use the words coach you on, but since we're kicking off sports here, we try and coach elaborations on here are some of the buzz words that I would bring to your customer. It doesn't always work. The result isn't always, "Hey, we're back in a thousand." Let's say, we might be like a baseball player, one out of three times what we're going to try and accomplish is going to work really well. The other two times we get mixed results. But the idea is that we coach the agents on things so they can go speak to their clients about it and hopefully get their client a better result. If the result ends up not being better, it just validates their current placement or the current structure and it shows that the wholesale broker, the retail broker did all the due diligence possible to make sure they achieve best coverage at best price.

James Rozzi: And a lot of cases, and depending on how comfortable our retail clients are, we, I'll speak on behalf of all of RPS, We frequently you get on the phone with insurers and with the retail brokers to go through this stuff, and that way you're adding some banister to your team. And I look at that in terms of, I ran through all of my retail clients, I don't see myself as RPS, I see myself as an extension of their team. So regardless of where they work, when I'm working on their business, even though they're working with RPS, I'm working on their behalf and it's almost like I'm another person within their own agency. That's how I treat it. And I want all of our clients to feel that way when they trade with RPS or when they trade with James Rozzi.

Joey Giangola: Well, it's that having confidence knowing that maybe, like you said, you're on their team more, as in you want them to do whatever they can to retain their client. So that maybe miss out on this time, but you're going to get it on the second time around, because you did the right thing the first time. How much of that plays into being that next man up on the bench, if we're going to keep going with the sport?

James Rozzi: Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think wholesale brokers, by and large, our hit ratios are quite lower. We do a lot of work and 80% of the time we probably don't get the business because we're validating somebody else's placement or a standard market account, and we're not necessarily going to dislodge that structure the first grower. If you looked at your ratios from year one to year three, it probably goes 80, 60, 40 in terms of 80% of the time, we're losing, 60% of the time, we're losing, 40% of the time, we're losing. So as soon as you get that third year of working on a deal, getting more comfortable with the deal and bring it to the market, I think the market starts to use a more viable opportunity and the wholesale hit ratio goes way up.

James Rozzi: I think it's a little bit different than down on the retail side. If I imagine speaking to a lot of my retail brokers, they're looking for more that 50%. They're not going to work with an insurer unless they feel they have a 50% better or chance of winning that account and providing them with a product that's going to work. But no, I think it's all about taking swings. I mean the more opportunities you get, the better it'll be for the results really. At the end of the day, you certainly don't want to be running around like a chicken with your head cut off, wasting your time in the wholesale world. But especially when you're starting out building a book, you need to be out there. You need to be in the market. The carriers need to get more, more comfortable and familiar with you in terms of how you trade and how you're building your book and how you want to broker your deals.

James Rozzi: And so the more opportunities you have to run through the market, the more serious the underwriters take you, and the more serious the underwriters take you, the more value you bring to the retailer who's bringing you that business, and honestly the more deals you can get done. But at the end of the day, you get some deals done, you might get a few favors for a few underwriters here and there and then help you win when the business. And we tell our carriers, "Hey, look, this is an A opportunity, this is a B opportunity, this is a validation exercise." And so we try and be upfront with our carriers in order to foster that partnership to say, "Here's the situation. We have every opportunity to write this account for this retailer because of a situation that's occurring on that account." Their losses, aren't very good. Their deductible levels are correct. They're not buying the right cabinets. That's an opportunity.

James Rozzi: Your B opportunity is, here's a customer who's happy with their current coverage product, it's at a pretty good price, but there's some room for improvement. So we might present them a compelling alternative, but ultimately if they go with the same carrier for 10 years, they might say, "Look, I'm comfortable where I am. That carrier's paid my claims. And even though you've offered me some enhancements, it's not really worth it." And then you get to see opportunities, which still as a wholesale broker, it's important to work on those on behalf of our retail customers to make sure we're doing that due diligence aspect of our job and validating to the end user, the insurance buyer, that they're with the best home currently.

James Rozzi: And a lot of those are going to be deals where, "Hey we've done this for a while. We know what the rates should be. We look at that account. The rates are good. The coverage is good. The price is good, but you got to test the market a little bit to make sure." And it also helps keep other carriers, honest. Presents again, a little competition to make sure they're doing the right thing.

Joey Giangola: What would you think would be a good mixture of A, B and C opportunities an agent should be working at any given time?

James Rozzi: Good question. Probably, I would hope that an agent, if they're using their time wisely, it's got 50% of their time on A opportunities. And then hopefully 30% on the B, and then 20% or less on the C opportunities. Because my guess would be, in order to be a successful agent, again, you got to work hard. You got to know your trade and know your business and be consultative. But if you're spending too much time on those B and C opportunities, then it's a lot of time wasted. Especially, look, we're all working from home right now. And time is valuable to everybody, whether you're working at home or you're working in an office.

James Rozzi: But with the current environment we're trading under, everybody's time, at least in my opinion, it's gotten a little bit more valuable because it's harder to get those opportunities in the door. You're not out having the dinners, having the lunches, building those client face to face relationships. So if you get that opportunity you might just have one shot at it, so you better make sure it's the right opportunity that you're spending your time on, because if you're focusing your time over here on too many B and Cs, then you're missing out on the chances you could have to be working on more A opportunities.

Joey Giangola: Now what's the reality of the mixture that you generally see from agents?

James Rozzi: Look, when I was starting out, it was probably more 60, 40. There were 60% B and C opportunities, and 40% opportunities. But nowadays, I work with a pretty consistent base of clients. I've also been a big believer on, "Don't take in more business than you can handle." So people refer business my way. If it's not a good fit for me and my team, then we find the right resource within RPS to work with them, but I try and stay focused to the people that have been loyal to me. And a lot of the folks that have been loyal to me, we've built five, six, seven, even 12 year relationships. And so those clients, those retail brokers in particular, I would say they're spending 80% of their time on A opportunities and 20% of their time on B and C opportunities, because they're a little bit more established in their careers like myself.

Joey Giangola: Well, it seems like it definitely a nice place to be living, James, it sounds like for sure-

James Rozzi: Look, it takes time to get there. It took me every bit of 10 years to get there. Some people, maybe it takes longer. Some people it happens quicker, but I think the goal for anybody, whether you're an insurance or another job, is to find a spot in your life. Find a career you enjoy, do it as well as you can. And then the nice part about insurance or even other businesses, if you build the right relationships, then the rest takes care of itself. And I'd like to think that the customers that I trade with what I call my core client base, we've traded with long enough that they know my work style, I know their work style, and we're all, again, part of the same team in this together to win deals. And hopefully we don't lose too much either.

Joey Giangola: Yeah. I'm curious, what's the biggest adjustment that you've had to make, to make sure, you said, you are making the best use of that time since a lot of your weapons have been taken from you in the traditional insurance game. Where should agents be focusing that relationship building effort now given our current environment?

James Rozzi: Yeah. I think, again, it works the same if you're a retailer or a wholesale broker. I think you focus your time on being that doctor's second opinion right now. My gut tells me, and this is what I see, is whether I'm competing with other wholesale brokers, AmWINS, CRC, you name it. There's a lot of placements that are under a lot of duress. And so when an agent calls, says, "Here's what I got from so-and-so. What do you think?" I try and give it an evaluation that is fair and unbiased in the sense of, "Hey, I would've done this differently, or I would've done this differently." It's a sound placement. If I'm on the agency side, I think a lot of the sales calls that you need to make right now, or just, again, trying to understand what the situation is for each buyer, and who's maybe in a good place versus who's in a more challenging place come renewal time.

James Rozzi: If someone's in a learn share program and they have a competitive rate, then it's probably, "Hey you're with the right folks." And other than service, there's not much more we could do for you. If somebody is coming out of a multi-year placement with a single carrier on a rate lock, that's probably going away and they're going to be under a lot of duress come renewal time. If they've had some big claims, they're going to be under a lot of duress come real time. So I think as they evaluate those opportunities, what agents can do differently or what wholesalers should definitely, is just be there for the customers to evaluate what the opportunities are as agents and also brokers to add value. Not necessarily win the business, but add value or even potentially just validate what's already happening with their current broker structure.

James Rozzi: And get too far in front of your skis either with promising the world. Because right now under the current environment there's less face to face interaction, and the market's changing from an insurance buying standpoint, changing weekly if not faster. So what we told clients in April obviously is different today. What I'm telling clients for August and September business could potentially be massively different come November if it's a pretty active hurricane season. So you got to be pretty proactive in the sense of the advice you give, trying to forecast where to go and how to best evaluate business.

Joey Giangola: All right James, I got two more questions for you, sir. And talking about that advice, talking about being proactive, what is the one thing that you would want agents to know and/or do as it relates to property construction in the environment we're in? What's the most important thing they should be focused on right now?

James Rozzi: I think in terms of, if you look at construction, every day you turn on the news, there's a wood-frame apartment building on fire in some major city. So in terms of construction, I think the agents need to be aware that if those claims on the construction side don't start improving, whether it be fires or water damage, there will become capacity constraints, and it's going to get harder and require more time to get these deals together. So the first thing I think the agents should know is, challenging market, we're going to need more time. These deals can't get put together in two, three days, one week. You need a solid month sometimes to properly canvas the market, get to the right re-insurance channels and get the capacity clients' needs.

James Rozzi: On the property side, a similar conversation. You can put together a simple single-location quake placement in 24 hours. But if you're talking about a large account with a spread of risk geographically, then you're going to need more time. And I think depending on what part of the country you're in, agents need to be aware that. As an example, a lot carriers are tapped out of capacity in South Florida. So if they're going to deploy [inaudible] capacity down there from the carrier standpoint, it's going to cost a lot more than it did two, three months ago. Same thing if you look at A and B zone earthquake, which is Los Angeles and the Bay area from a quake perspective, the capacity is getting tighter. The metrics carriers want in terms of the return on the capital is more substantial.

James Rozzi: And so I think the agents just need to understand and need to keep in mind that until carriers have a few profitable years, until some of this uncertainty goes away, we have to continue to prep clients for what likely could be tough news and more challenging results, and make sure that as we're prepping them, we're not just saying, "Hey, here's a 20% increase, sorry." It's, "Here's an increase. This is likely what you need to, to expect and be planning for. And by the way, here's the tools we can use to hopefully improve the results." And what I could use more from agents, if I think about my own customer base is more feedback from them in terms of what is it that their customer wants to do by way of those tools. Do you have a client who wants to take more retention? Do you have a client who wants to self-insure alert? Do you have a client that wants to buy less limit? Do you have a client that wants to use all three tools?

James Rozzi: And so we got more feedback about the buyer's needs and the buyer's business situation, that helps us put our feet in their shoes a bit and hopefully get them a result that works for their business. And I think the most challenging part right now is that you have a lot of businesses that are struggling. And so some of the tools that we used to be able to work with when the economy was stronger or hotel working rates were 99% and every major city, it was easier to have clients take on a little bit more financial deductible risks. Right now, it's, "Hey, if we take on more deductible risks, we might not be able to pay the deductible." Or, "If we don't take on more ductile risks, we might not be able to pay the insurance." So in some cases it's a bit of a lose-lose situation. And that's also conversations I think would be good for retail brokers to have with their clients, and also share that information back with the wholesale side, just so we can put ourselves all on the right path.

Joey Giangola: All right James, last question. And we've gone over quite a bit of things, but I want to know specifically more about your outlook, where you think, opportunity is a hard word to use and find these days, but if you're looking for something that's right around the corner for you that you're excited about but you haven't quite been able to grasp it, what's that thing and how do you think you're getting there?

James Rozzi: For us, we're always looking for the edge of, "What's the new product we can deliver? What's the new need for our client?" And I think there's some opportunities in the construction space. There's some interesting stuff happening in the mass timber world that we're keeping a close eye on. We're trying to educate some carriers about that being a more prominent construction type that I think people are going to be using. And so we've got our eyes and ears on that a bit, which is too early to give you any hard information on, but excited about what we're seeing there. And then on the property side, you're seeing the opposite of program-building.

James Rozzi: You're seeing these shared limit programs go away. You're seeing products that people spent five or six years building disappear, whether it's a hab facility or a construction program or a deductible buydown product, just because when you have a more challenging market environment, carriers take their capacity back. They don't want to deploy it in these programs, these facilities, because they want to control it a bit better. And so I think for me personally, I'm starting to look at, "Okay, when this, when this all goes away, when this changes, what are some of the ways in which we can deliver risk transfer our clients differently? That would be new to customers based on what I see today. And I think in the earthquake side, in the parametric world, and certainly in the deductible world, on the quake business, I think there's some interesting stuff that we can do post-pandemic when the market kind of stabilize a little bit to offer clients the ability to buy earthquake coverage a little less traditionally.

James Rozzi: Because for decades, it's been this, "We're going to buy five, 10, 15, $20 million with a limit with a 5% deductible." And I think when you look at that, there's a lot of ways in which we can add value to that transaction that would either do away with the deductible, add in a earthquake trigger parametric component to it that protects clients when the big quake happens, but maybe shed some of the costs for some of those smaller events that might not create the same damage level that you would see in a bigger quake. So those are the two areas I'm personally focused and excited about once things start to stabilize. Right now it's really a keep your head down, work hard, take care of your clients and just make sure that you're staying on top of all the legal developments from COVID claims standpoint.

James Rozzi: All the carrier changes, Because there's a lot of carriers still rebalancing their books. So, for me, right now, it's really just about staying on top of all of that to make sure that when a client calls, we can give them the most accurate information on what's going in the market possible.

Joey Giangola: James, I'm going to leave it right there, sir. It was a lot of fun.

James Rozzi: Hey, you bet, Joey. It was great catching up with you guys and hope you have a really great week.